Masayoshi Son's 10,000-word interview: AI is the only thing I care about now, and I am an absolute believer in technology

Technological change has not slowed down at all, and automation is the ultimate mission of technology!

This is the concept that Masayoshi Son reiterated in his latest interview.

In a very long interview with CNBC, the founder of SoftBank and the helmsman of the $100 billion Vision Fund repeatedly stated that AI can solve problems that humans cannot solve. Everything will be redefined in the future, and all industries, production methods and lifestyles will be reconstructed.

He calls himself an "absolute believer in technology" and is now focused on one and only one thing: artificial intelligence .

Masayoshi Son does not shy away from possible problems, but he believes that humans have enough wisdom to cope with change.

Even in the future, intelligent robots will be the main force in labor and earning money, and humans can be supported by machines and have the basic income needed for life.

Masayoshi Son’s own mission is to invest in emerging forces and young entrepreneurs, whom he calls “Jedi Knights”, through capital.

The Vision Fund he raised, which is worth hundreds of billions of dollars, has now invested about $70 billion.

Over the past year and a half, we have invested in 70 companies, all centered on artificial intelligence.

Of course, he also talked about his views on 5G trends and the development of companies such as Didi and Uber.

Inevitably, they talked about their most successful investment - Jack Ma and Alibaba. Masayoshi Son revealed that he still has an in-depth chat with Jack Ma once a month.

So if you want to know Masayoshi Son’s latest thoughts, this ten-thousand-word interview transcript is not to be missed.

The reporter for this interview was David Faber of CNBC. The interview was translated by Tencent Technology and reprinted with permission from Quantum位.

The following is the full content:

Q: Masayoshi Son, thank you. It's great to meet you.

Masayoshi Son : Nice to meet you, too.

Q: Long time no see. You look good.

Masayoshi Son : Thank you, thank you.

Q: You know, I've read a lot about you and SoftBank and the Vision Fund. Some say that no one on earth is more capable of influencing the next wave of technology than you. Not Bezos, not Musk, but you. Part of it is the risk you're willing to take, the money you have at your disposal, and a lot of other things. Do you agree?

Masayoshi Son : Well, no, my company is just a smaller startup.

Q: Come on. You have over $100 billion at your disposal, and your company is by no means a small one. Don't you think you have the ability to have a significant impact on the development of technology?

Masayoshi Son : Well, I'm excited to be a part of it. It would have happened just the same without me. But I still want to support entrepreneurs -- entrepreneurs with dreams and passion. Technology is moving very fast. So if I can be a good promoter or supporter, then I would be very happy to do so.

AI is the biggest change in history

Q: You know, when you talk about the rapid pace of technology, you've been in this business for a while, since the early 1980s. How fast do you think things are moving compared to 10, 15, or 20 years ago?

Masayoshi Son : You know, in the past 30 years, there are three things that are important in our industry. CPU computing power, memory size, and communication speed. These three things have improved by a million times, each of them has improved by a million times. So this is a huge impact - a huge impact on technology, lifestyle, and society.

But I would say, what if it gets a million times better from now? A million times more computing power? A million times more memory and communication speed? So it's not slowing down at all. I think the computing power is going to make artificial intelligence really a reality, and you know, intelligent robots, analytical prediction, all these things are happening now.

Q: Yes. This is also your investment focus, and I know where you invest. I think you said that artificial intelligence will be the biggest .

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Bigger than anything we’ve ever seen?

Masayoshi Son : Much bigger. Much bigger.

Q: Why?

Masayoshi Son : Because, you know, there are many creatures below us. But humans have always been the best, the smartest and the most powerful, influencing everything on Earth, but the premise is that humans have the smartest intelligence.

But in the end, humans themselves invented something that is probably smarter than ourselves in many ways. So, you know, humans invented tools. These tools are used for farming and so on. But the premise is that the human brain is always smarter than the tools we control. That's why we can control them.

Eventually, this tool may become smarter than we are. This means that, regardless of the tools we have been using to build industrial society, a huge paradigm shift is taking place.

Everything should be redefined. The way we use tools, the way we live, the way we produce, all of these will be transformed. Every industry will be redefined.

Q: So we’re still in the early stages.

Masayoshi Son : It’s just the beginning. It’s just the beginning.

Q: But we are definitely moving faster than we were before. If AI is going to become a million times more powerful than it is now, well, that’s really hard to imagine. What do you think?

Or, when you look ahead 20 or 30 years, what do you see? I know you have a vision of 300 years ahead. But talk about what you think the next 20 or 30 years will look like.

Masayoshi Son : Well, in 30 years, things will definitely get better and better. Everything will get faster without any surprises. We will live longer and healthier. Diseases that we couldn't solve in the past will be cured.

Q: Is this thanks to artificial intelligence?

Masayoshi Son : Yes, of course. There are many diseases, such as cancer, that affect the lives of millions of people. In the future, cancer will no longer be a disease we should be afraid of, because artificial intelligence will solve problems that we cannot solve.

Q: Do you believe this?

Masayoshi Son : I totally believe it.

Q: Do you believe that's something that's going to happen in our lifetime?

Masayoshi Son : Yes. It must be. In the next 30 years, I am sure that this will happen. We have cars and other means of transportation. However, we have many traffic accidents and millions of people died in traffic accidents. This is not the case now.

Self-driving cars, drones - delivering goods and food. Today we drive our own cars. But in the future this will not be the case. Artificial intelligence will make the number of traffic accidents zero.

AI cannot threaten humans

Q: Okay. You talked about people in the future not getting sick anymore, not dying in car accidents anymore. So conceivably people will live much longer.

But what will they do every day in the future? If machines are smarter than humans, what jobs will be left for humans in this world?

Masayoshi Son : There will always be new jobs, new stimulation. You know, humans will have art, music, entertainment, all the creative jobs, and communication between people. We will help each other. We will discuss with each other.

We get inspiration and suggestions from other people's words, like, "Hey, the food there is delicious. Let's go and try it." All of these things will be exciting and more human work. They will always appear.

Q: Do you believe this?

Masayoshi Son : I totally believe it.

Q: Because of course you are aware of the debate about artificial intelligence.

Masayoshi Son : I know.

Q: I mean, Elon Musk is very concerned that people might use AI for bad things rather than good things.

Or we will reach the point where we are controlled by robots and robots will become our overlords. Don't you think so?

Masayoshi Son : I am an optimist, okay. There will always be various problems in the future. But we humans are smart enough. We always try to adapt to new situations.

You know, just 100 years ago, 90% of people were engaged in agriculture. Today, in developed countries such as the United States and Japan, this proportion is only 5%. In other words, only 5% of people are engaged in agriculture now.

I am still very surprised by this to this day. Just last year, I was talking to people in India. In India, to this day, 90% of the people work as farmers.

So, in some countries today, 90% of people still work as farmers.

100 years ago, in the United States, Japan and some European countries, 90% of people were still farmers. Now 90% has become 5%.

Now, when it becomes 5%, what happens to people's jobs? People still have many other exciting jobs, creative jobs. So I think, humans will always have jobs.

Q: But in the world you describe, the human brain is still relatively superior. In the near future, the world you see will no longer be like this.

Masayoshi Son : Well, we can still create things. We can still enjoy. We can still try to sell something, try to design something, try to communicate with others.

This may be just a job, and it may be a job you don't like very much. But we have to do it just to live, just to earn an income, to have food to eat, a roof over our heads, and clothes to wear.

We must have some income, even if it is just to live. For this purpose, many people are working, but they don't necessarily like it. They have to work to make a living.

And those who have to work to live, many of them will be replaced by a more efficient solution, that is, smart robots, robots with intelligence.

Well, that way we can move on to more exciting things.

You know, in the Roman Empire, the Roman citizens were so wealthy that they didn't have to do some primitive work. Because they had servants. They also had a lot of other peoples to support.

So what did the Roman citizens do? Did the Roman citizens grieve because they had lost their jobs? Did they live a sad life?

No. They enjoyed it. Because they had free wine, free bread.

Q: There are also free bathrooms.

Masayoshi Son : Free bread, free entertainment in the stadium, free music, free bathrooms, and free water. So, this society becomes very rich, and it provides the basic income that people need.

What did they do? They discussed various issues. They debated various issues. They talked about politics. They talked about education and entertainment.

You know, they're talking about the next step, a new area that they should pursue. So they get it. They're still enjoying it. They're still excited. They're still chasing new successes.

Q: So, when artificial intelligence rises and its intelligence exceeds ours and robots are everywhere, you and I are going to relax and have a good time.

Masayoshi Son : Great times. We will discuss many things.

Q: Do we?

Masayoshi Son : Of course.

Q: I hope you will still be able to do interviews then. Who knows?

Masayoshi Son : Yes, absolutely. It will happen. These are all very important tasks.

Q: Yes.

Masayoshi Son : That’s what you’re doing.

Robots will feed humans in the future

Q: Will our consciousness in some sense merge with robots? And AI will almost become part of our brains?

Masayoshi Son : I think so. Even today, we don’t need to remember so many things because you can search for relevant information on Google.

It's like a part of your brain - it becomes an extension of your brain. So we don't have to do some primitive things.

We can use our brains to think more. You know, think more creatively.

The brain is no longer used to remember how many days there are in a year, or what happened, nor is it used to remember what the name of this plant is or what shape its rhizome is.

Because we can Google it really quickly, right.

However, our brains still function in many ways. Our brains are still very active and actively thinking.

The extension of the brain enables a seamless connection between virtual and reality. It is also an extension of our lives.

Q: What, is this what you want to do?

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Masayoshi Son : Yes, I would be happy to have a robot at home. We create robots and we can talk to them. We can have a lot of fun together.

Q: In this world you will find that people do not have the same income. Some people think that we will have to give basic income to people whose jobs are taken away by artificial intelligence and robots.

Masayoshi Son : I think the concept of basic income is very interesting. So, in the future there will be a basic income that allows people to live.

But the most important thing is that to have a more wonderful and richer life, we must also compete. Competition can get more stimulation, which will be the driving force for innovation and development.

However, simple things like growing vegetables, fishing, and raising livestock can be done by intelligent robots.

Q: Using robots?

Masayoshi Son : Use robots to do it. Intelligent robots will help us provide basic income security. Because of renewable energy, the cost of electricity is almost zero, almost as free as air or sunlight.

Q: If we all switch to renewable energy, then we can hope to beat climate change. But we are running out of time.

Masayoshi Son : We should do it. We absolutely should do it. Our company is on its way to becoming the second largest or largest renewable energy supplier.

So I see the cost of electricity going down dramatically, going down exponentially. It's going to become almost as cheap as water.

When electricity becomes so cheap, it will be enough to power intelligent robots so that harvesting crops will cost almost nothing.

So, our basic food will become almost free, and housing will become very, very cheap, so that anyone can afford it.

Again, these construction works are done by intelligent robots. So, the most basic things we need will become so cheap that anyone can have the basic materials of life.

Q: The standard of living is much better.

Masayoshi Son : Yes, the living standard is much better.

Q: That’s true for many people.

Masayoshi Son : That's true for most people.

100 billion US dollars invested in AI

Q: So, based on the world that you described and the ideas that you want to bring to life, which investments by your SoftBank or Vision Fund best reflect your pursuit of this?

Of the many companies out there, do you think some or all of the companies you invest in best reflect the ideal world you seek?

Masayoshi Son : In the past year and a half, our Vision Fund has invested in 70 companies. They are all centered on artificial intelligence.

They're all using AI to make a difference. They're great companies. Uber is about to have an IPO.

Q: Pretty exciting, right? It will probably be even more exciting when it comes out in the summer.

Masayoshi Son : I won’t say when. But it looks like it’s not far away. A few months ago, Guardant Health, a biotech innovation company, had an IPO. Many companies will have IPOs in the next two to three years.

Q: But the common thread between these companies that the Vision Fund has invested in is artificial intelligence.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Very focused.

Masayoshi Son : This is the only thing I am focusing on now. So we have invested $100 billion in only one thing, which is artificial intelligence.

Q: Even though it spans a lot of different industries.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: So it could be self-driving cars.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. Use AI to build houses. Use AI to support hotel customer service. Use AI to provide medical services. And, use AI to communicate.

Q: What about WeWork, the shared office space? How is it leveraging the power of AI?

Masayoshi Son : Many people still think it's just a shared office.

Q: They buy office buildings and then rent them out. That's great.

Masayoshi Son : That's not my point. My point is that this is a work community. So when Facebook came out, many people still didn't understand the power of Facebook.

People think it's just a bunch of pictures and text introducing people. It's not.

This is a community. This is a social graph. It's your relationships with your friends and family, and your relationships with even more people you've never met in person, but only know online.

But now, WeWork has nearly 500,000 members, so they have a community graph.

So if you're starting a startup and you want to offer a new product, you probably need to design the product. You need packaging. And packaging needs design.

You might also need an accountant. You'll need a lawyer to apply for patents when you start shipping. So you need a lot of things. None of which your own employees are good at.

But in WeWork, members can help each other. They may be from New York or Boston, but they can share an office and help each other.

And, with the help of AI, you can even recommend, hey, by the way, if you’re looking for a packaging designer, there’s a guy in the WeWork coworking space next door who does design. You might be able to meet that guy at a beer party on Friday night.

So this suggestion is feasible.

Amazon uses the power of artificial intelligence to recommend the next item you might want to buy based on your shopping history and your interests.

So if recommending products can be done with the power of AI, then recommending WeWork members to meet can also be done with the power of AI.

So it will be more productive, more fun. So even a beer party will be more productive and more fun.

Not afraid of burning money, just afraid of being slow

Q: So this is really about community development.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: I imagine that will be key to their revenue growth because they will be involved in these transactions in some way.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. While you increase productivity and excitement, office expenses are down by 40% on average. So from a CFO and CEO perspective, a 40% cost reduction is great.

与此同时，员工对工作场所的满意度也显著提高了，比如，工作场所的幸福感提高了30%。大家都感到很满意。

Q: But now, they are losing money.

Masayoshi Son : Because they are growing so fast and they are still making capital expenditures, right.

Q: Yes.

Masayoshi Son : But it's a continuous recurring revenue. Just like a subscription. You know, subscribing to a magazine or a newspaper. And now, people are starting to subscribe to Netflix.

Netflix is ​​still losing money, but compared to other media companies, Netflix's value is huge.

Q: That's based on their ability to continue to attract subscribers. That's their value at this point.

Masayoshi Son : Facebook was losing money for a while even after its IPO. Once it started making money, it became very easy to make money.

Because the underlying cost of customer acquisition or innovation isn't growing exponentially. It's pretty much flat.

So the initial cost is high and almost always flat, but the recurring subscription revenue grows exponentially.

Q: Far more than the cost of renting so much space?

Masayoshi Son : Of course.

Q: I mean, they're already the largest tenant in London, New York, and Washington, D.C.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. So we also launched WeWork in Japan. And in Japan, it became profitable after just one year. It's amazing.

Q: Right. Do you want to invest more in WeWork?

Masayoshi Son : Of course!

Q: Are you disappointed by reports that some of your investors have tried or succeeded in convincing you not to invest in as many companies as you wanted?

Masayoshi Son : Well, I want to invest more money. I want to increase my investment.

Some of my investors said, "Masa, are you sure? You're too excited and too focused on one company. Don't get too obsessed."

But I'm still excited, and I'm willing to invest more when I can.

Q: You would do that.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. Of course.

Q: I mean, I think you've invested $8 billion.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: How important is the relationship and dialogue you have with the Vision Fund’s largest investors?

For example, the Abu Dhabi Fund in Saudi Arabia. Do they have any influence on what industries and teams you choose to invest in?

Masayoshi Son : Well, basically we make the investment decisions. We are the members of the investment committee. So we have the contractual right and we are exercising that right.

Of course, first they have to believe in my vision and my dream. We have to respect that trust.

So, we communicate with them regularly. They are very supportive. We are very happy with the relationship we have. I am honored.

However, the actual investment decisions, as well as activities with the company, are all made by ourselves.

Q: But there are reports that when you invested in WeWork, they did say, "Take it easy."

Masayoshi Son : They will intervene to some extent. There is a contract limit that if we invest more than $3 billion in each company, we must obtain their consent.

Q: I understand.

Masayoshi Son : But, apart from that, we have 100% right to make our own decisions, because our investment committee is 100% made up of SoftBank people.

Raise another $100 billion in new funds

Q: Now you've talked about starting another Vision Fund.

Masayoshi Son : Well, it's too early now. We still have a lot of money.

Q: Yeah, in terms of investments, how much have you invested? I think your total fund is $100 billion or $98.6 billion. How much has been invested?

Masayoshi Son : We have invested about $70 billion, but we have some banks that want to support us in expanding our investment because the value of our assets has increased.

Many of the companies we invest in are preparing for IPOs, so banks are willing to support us.

Q: So you could even conceivably get more than $100 billion.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. Absolutely.

Q: Financing through asset appreciation.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. Absolutely.

Q: When do you think this will end? I mean, when do you feel like you'll run out of money to invest?

Masayoshi Son : Well, we have to see. We have to see how many more exciting opportunities there are and at what speed they emerge.

However, every time we complete an investment, I always get a lot of people expressing their interest in participating in our next investment.

Q: Do you think you could do it again?

Masayoshi Son : Of course.

Q: Raise another $100 billion in funding?

Masayoshi Son : I can't say how big the new fund is. However, I have received many calls from investors who want to join our new fund.

Q: What about the people who say, “Well, actually, you’ve overstated the value of a lot of the company?” When you have such a large fund, you’re bound to run into people like that.

What do you want to say to those who disagree with you?

Masayoshi Son : Well, at least our return on investment is very impressive. I am very excited about our return on investment.

So, maybe some people will say, "Masa Son, you invested too much money," but after we invested, the value of our company continued to grow rapidly.

Q: You've realized some returns. I mean, Nvidia has been a very good return on investment. But it's just a transaction, not a real investment. You didn't own it for very long.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. When they mature, we have to sell some to get returns. But after that, we will invest in new opportunities.

This is how investing works – this is how any investment company must operate.

Q: What are you seeing there? I mean, you're in California. You're near Woodside. I know you're being approached by a lot of companies. Are you seeing a lot of opportunities right now?

Masayoshi Son : There are a lot of very exciting opportunities. There are new opportunities beckoning us every day.

Q: And the management team. Do you think you can do it well?

I mean, when you're making a business decision, what's most important to you? The founders running the business, or the business plan itself?

Masayoshi Son : It's a combination of all these factors. So the business model has to be an exciting one. A disruptive new model. One that makes people say, "Wow, this is definitely a very important model."

And the market for this product or service has to be big enough. The growth of users has to be exponential. We don’t invest in early-stage companies. The Vision Fund only invests in later-stage companies that are larger than $100 million.

Q: So, you usually only invest in later stages.

Masayoshi Son : Yes, late-stage investment.

Q: The investment amount is usually large.

Masayoshi Son : So, most of the venture capital is doing the early stage preparation for us. They invest before us in the early stage, the middle stage. We focus on the late stage.

We support their growth. So, at this stage, we already have enough actual user data.

I mean, their users are growing rapidly, their business model has proven to be a successful model. They are expected to grow to be the absolute number one in the industry. That's what we focus on investing in.

Invest another $1.6 billion in Didi

Q: Of course, I've asked you about your investments in the U.S. But you've also been very active in China.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: You’ve invested in Didi Chuxing and a few other companies. You just did a deal this week with Grab, the Southeast Asian ride-hailing giant.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: I mean, that's a huge investment number.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. We are preparing to invest an additional $1.6 billion in Didi Chuxing alone. We have participated in two financing activities of the company, and this is the third round of financing we have participated in.

Q: But these companies consume a lot of money.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: They haven’t made any money yet. I mean the ride-hailing industry.

Masayoshi Son : No. But they are growing too fast. But their marginal return is 20% or more, which is actually a very reasonable and very profitable business.

They're growing so fast that an initial customer acquisition cost and infrastructure creation cost, those are the initial investments.

Q: Yes.

Masayoshi Son : This marginal rate of return has proven to be very healthy.

Q: In the case of Uber, do you think the rise of autonomous driving will make that business more profitable? I'm obviously talking about many years from now.

But I'm still curious about your thoughts. Would Uber be a more profitable company without drivers?

Masayoshi Son : I absolutely think so. Like I said, self-driving cars are coming no matter what. It's a technology.

Technology is driving us forward. When self-driving cars emerge, the cost of providing ride-hailing services will become very efficient.

So it will provide a service network that will greatly reduce people's travel costs, and there will be no traffic accidents, or there will be a great reduction in accidents. In the short term, I can't say there will be zero accidents.

But compared to human accident rates, it will be much lower. I think that will happen very soon.

So, lower accident rates, lower costs and more reliable time guarantees. All of these will happen.

And, there is a network effect. When there are so many cars providing service for you, the speed at which the car comes to pick you up becomes faster. So, this network effect is necessary.

That means you have to have scale, you have to have a large market share, and that's why we invest in companies with the number one market share in every country in the world.

Q: Do you yourself want to be a long-term shareholder in Uber? I mean, you said there's an IPO coming. You'll have the opportunity to cash out some of your shares in the public market. Does the Vision Foundation do that?

Masayoshi Son : I want to hold on as long as possible. Of course, it all depends on the stock price. Sometimes the stock price goes up too high and too fast, and then we have to sell a little bit first.

But it all depends on market conditions. Do I believe this company will see exponential growth? I absolutely do.

Q: I guess you are satisfied with the management now?

Masayoshi Son : I have great respect for Uber CEO Dara and his new management team. They are very smart and they are good at balancing.

Q: What do you mean by balance?

Masayoshi Son : He can both actively expand the business and greatly improve cost-effectiveness. So I respect Dara. But at the same time, I have to mention my respected former CEO Travis.

He's the best entrepreneur. He's a pioneer, you know. When you have to pioneer a new frontier, you have to have an energy, passion, and innovative thinking. He's a scrappy guy, and he's one of the best entrepreneurs.

Q: Will you support him in his new venture?

Masayoshi Son : I would love to. It all depends on the price. But I respect him very much.

SoftBank is undervalued

Q: I want to talk about SoftBank itself, which we haven't really talked about yet. How much time do you spend running SoftBank as opposed to just thinking about the Vision Fund's investments or even SoftBank's investments itself?

Masayoshi Son : So, what is SoftBank? Until a year and a half ago, I was the CEO of an operating company. The main operating company was telecommunications.

Mobile companies sell iPhones and Android phones, provide network connectivity, and serve customers. So, I am a CEO - the CEO of the operating company.

I spend 97% of my time and energy on operations, and only 3% of my time is spent on continued investment.

But now, my situation is exactly the opposite, with 97% of my time spent on investing and 3% on the rest of the business.

Q: So you spend very little time on operations. You pointed out in your last investor call that SoftBank is not as complex as people think.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Are you disappointed with the way the market is valuing SoftBank and its related assets?

Masayoshi Son : No, I am not disappointed. It will take some time for people to understand the true value of SoftBank. Not only are we not selling our shares, but we are also buying back our own shares.

Q: Buybacks are very popular in the market.

Masayoshi Son : Yeah, so I'm not depressed. This is an opportunity for me because when I buy back shares at what I think is an attractive price, I smile a lot.

Q: Right. A lot of people look at SoftBank and say, "Masayoshi Son is the biggest risk-taker. He always has been. He almost went bankrupt in 2000 when the dot-com bubble burst. And it could happen again because he has a lot of debt on his balance sheet." What do you say to that?

Masayoshi Son : Well, I would say, "Thank you for worrying about me and my company." I am confident that we can break even. People think that the debt of the various companies we invest in is our debt. It is not.

Each company has its own accounting and balance sheet, and has its own ability to repay its own debts. If you own 50% or 51% of the company, its debt will be included in your company's accounting.

SoftBank Group's debt is actually about $4 billion. Our assets are $25 billion. So $25 billion in assets minus $4 billion in debt, that's a very healthy financial position.

Q: Right. But you're not frustrated that the market doesn't see that?

Masayoshi Son : Oh, I just smile happily. Because I am a buyer. If I am a buyer, I want to buy only cheap things. So buying back stocks at a cheap price is good news for me.

Q: Are you happy?

Masayoshi Son : I am the largest shareholder of SoftBank. I can increase my stake at a price below the actual potential value. Therefore, I am a happy buyer.

Q: Will you continue to do this? Will you buy back shares when the value of your assets is widely recognized by the market?

Masayoshi Son : No. We have announced the buyback plan. Everything is going well. As we succeed in the Vision Fund, the potential value of our assets will grow rapidly.

Guaranteed 7% return rate

Q: What is the Vision Fund? Is it a hedge fund? Is it a 1% management fee and 20% of the profits? What is the fee structure?

Masayoshi Son : Yes, almost.

Q: Even though you own 40% (about $40 billion) of the funds, you have to pay a 7% preferred return.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: And there is also your own contribution from SoftBank.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. SoftBank Group owns nearly 49% of the shares.

Q: Yes.

Masayoshi Son : The rest belongs to the partners and management. We are very happy with the structure we have created.

Q: But you have to take out 7% of the $40 billion a year, right?

Masayoshi Son : Our return on investment is much higher than 7%. So, our return on equity is very good. It is much better than the simple return on investment.

Q: I think you guys have had a 44% return on investment since 2000. Is that correct?

Masayoshi Son : Yeah, about that.

Q: Do you think you can maintain this kind of return on investment in the Vision Fund?

Masayoshi Son : So far, so good. I am comparing with my own record. So, so far, the return of the Vision Fund is within this range.

Q: Why are you willing to take such big risks, and continue to do so, even though you had what people call a "near-death experience" 19 years ago?

Masayoshi Son : Because I am a believer, an absolute believer in technology. Some people don't like to invest in technology. But I like to do it, I believe in technology.

Q: I mean, you've said you want SoftBank to be the company that makes the greatest contribution to human evolution.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: That’s a pretty ambitious goal.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Do you believe you can really do it?

Masayoshi Son : I want to make it a reality.

Q: How to do it?

Masayoshi Son : By investing in new forces. These new forces, these young entrepreneurs, in my opinion, they are Jedi Knights. Young Jedi come out of school, they start to learn how to fly. Some of them have already started to fly by jumping.

I like to give them the courage to create new ways of living and solve the many problems that humanity still faces, such as incurable diseases or accidents.

To this day, many people are still suffering from illness and pain. Our young Jedi will save these people from the torment of illness or hard labor.

Q: I like the way you describe the future. I mean, you're a very optimistic person. You admit it yourself.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

ARM is preparing for an IPO

Q: Before we wrap up, let's go back to SoftBank itself. I have a few questions for you. Some people criticize you for buying things at SoftBank and then reselling them to the Vision Fund at a markup. What do you think about this?

Masayoshi Son : That’s not the case at all. The fact is that we spent eight or nine months on these companies before the Vision Fund accepted them.

During this period, I took out funds from SoftBank to invest, and then resold them when the time came. The value of the assets we resold increased significantly after we resold them.

So there may be one or two assets that are worth less than fair market value, but for the vast majority of assets and assets overall, their return on investment is great.

You can ask our investors, they are very happy with the return on their investment.

Q: In the case of ARM, your Vision Fund owns a stake in it, your SoftBank also owns a stake in it. But overall you own 100%?

Masayoshi Son : Yes. SoftBank acquired 100% of ARM. Our investment partners LPpartners strongly demanded to own at least 25% of the shares.

Q: Why?

Masayoshi Son : They said, "Masayoshi Son, the companies you invested in look great, please give us some shares." I said no.

This is an asset that we purchased 100% ourselves—this was before the Vision Fund came along—and I wanted to keep it.

They said, no, give us some. They said they wanted to own 50%. I said, no, I can't do that. So, I gave it 25% of ARM.

Q: Yeah. You paid a 43% premium.

Masayoshi Son : Yes, I paid a premium of more than 40%. I am glad that I still bought it at this price. Now, it is preparing for an IPO again, which may happen in the next five years.

Q: Are you planning to lead ARM to go public again?

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Is this the plan?

Masayoshi Son : Yes. By then, I think the increase in value will be very substantial. So if there is an opportunity for me to buy back all those shares, then I will be a happy buyer.

Q: Do you like that company?

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

5G accelerates machine-to-machine communications

Q: We haven't talked about Sprint yet. I want to talk about 5G and Sprint next. Do you think its deal with T-Mobile will be approved in the U.S. in the short term?

Masayoshi Son : This is decided by the US government, not by me.

Q: Of course not you. If you could decide, you would definitely approve it.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: You have encountered this situation before, but it didn't work out.

Masayoshi Son : So, I hope it will be approved, and it should be approved, because it has great significance for American consumers and American society. There are only two giant companies in this industry now, almost a duopoly.

The other companies, you know, barely made any money and weren't big enough to threaten the two giants.

But Sprint and T-Mobile will form a third force - and that will allow for evenly matched competition, real competition.

In this way, price competition will emerge. Real price competition will enable consumers to obtain lower cost and more powerful 5G services.

Q: Yes. Do you think 5G can change many industries?

Masayoshi Son : It will bring about a huge change. The average Internet speed is too slow now.

Q: Five years ago, this is what you told me.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: No more delays, right?

Masayoshi Son : 5G's speed and capacity are 100 times that of 4G. This means we can access good-looking videos or pictures very quickly without having to wait.

Therefore, in 5G networks, machine-to-machine communication between the Internet of Things will become very fast. 5G is crucial to the development of the United States.

Q: What about the whole world?

Masayoshi Son : Equally important.

Q: If Sprint is not approved to merge with T-Mobile, can it still go its own way or will it become more difficult?

Masayoshi Son : It's hard. It's always been hard. So I think the merger will put Sprint in a better position and help get better service to American citizens.

Q: I imagine you're going to have a very busy summer if Uber or another company goes public. I'm guessing Slack is one of your investments. You're going to be very busy.

Masayoshi Son : Well, I’m very busy and happy.

Q: I guess you want to continue like this.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Will this be the case for the next few years?

Masayoshi Son : Yes. It’s because of excitement. It’s so exciting. I really want to continue. It’s so good that I can’t stop.

Q: There are reports that there is a personality conflict within SoftBank between SoftBank COO Marcelo and Vision Fund CEO Rajiv. Is that true? What do you think about this?

Masayoshi Son : Impossible. They are all very good people, they are very good friends, and they are very good partners. Of course, they occasionally have different opinions.

But it's good to have some healthy competition or tension because then we work harder. But they're all great people. We're one big happy family.

Q: So, are you satisfied with your current team?

Masayoshi Son : Of course.

Ma Yun sees you every month

Q: Finally, let’s talk about the greatest investment of all time: Alibaba.

Masayoshi Son : Oh, yes, Alibaba. It's awesome.

Q: Do you want to make more money from this company?

Masayoshi Son : I want to hold Alibaba shares for as long as possible. Its revenue is still growing at 40% per year. Profits continue to soar.

Q: Do you believe it? Do you think Alibaba's growth potential will continue in the next few years?

Masayoshi Son : I totally believe it.

Q: Jack Ma is no longer at the helm. Does that have any impact? I mean, does Jack Ma's departure from Alibaba have any impact?

Masayoshi Son : No. Jack Ma will remain Alibaba's largest individual shareholder, and SoftBank will remain Alibaba's largest corporate shareholder.

We are very good partners and very good friends. Jack Ma is still guiding Alibaba's current CEO Daniel Zhang and management. Jack Ma has been providing guidance to the company's team.

I think Jack Ma will remain an important visionary who will help them whenever they need advice.

He will always be there. But Jack Ma has long told me that his style is to let the young people under him grow up as quickly as possible so that he doesn't have to worry about day-to-day affairs.

He can still think about things on the philosophical level and directional issues.

Q: Yes. He was a teacher.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: You two seem to have similar visions and are both optimistic about where the world is headed.

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: I imagine you had some interesting conversations.

Masayoshi Son : Yes. He is a great guy, a great friend, a great partner. I meet with him almost every month, even now.

Q: Really? Do you see him often?

Masayoshi Son : Yes.

Q: Once a month?

Masayoshi Son : Yes. Once a month, at least once every two months. We chat about everything, not just business. We are very good friends.

Q: Can you assure me that the future you see for artificial intelligence will be a good one? Will we not become slaves to robots?

Masayoshi Son : No. That is a bright future.

Q: Well, look, I appreciate you taking the time to speak with me. Thank you.

Masayoshi Son : Thank you very much, too.