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Why high voltage, why 800V?

Latest update time:2023-06-25
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When I wrote about high-voltage energy storage and high-voltage power batteries earlier, I mentioned 400V, 800V, and 1500V for photovoltaic energy storage; why high voltage? Today I will make a summary based on Li Xiang’s speech at the Spring Media Sharing Conference;


1

Li wants to see high voltage system architecture


Li Xiang's speech gave a very profound explanation from multiple dimensions such as user needs, market demand, market status and market development, product ROI: (Excerpted from the Wanwan Auto official account)


What is the third way? Most companies don’t make money with their charging piles . Because charging piles need to do 6 to 7 orders a day to break even. If you do 10 orders, the profit situation will be better than that of a gas station.


But today, charging piles generally charge 2 to 3 times per day, and almost all of them cost money. Therefore, the common algorithm is to spread the cost of charging piles that can only be used for 5 years on average over 10 years, so as to increase profits and reduce losses.


The principle of charging piles is actually the same as that of restaurants, which is a table turnover rate . You need to charge it for an hour to fully charge. At this time, if the user comes back from a meal, two or three hours have passed, which can easily lead to 2 to 3 orders a day. We calculated by ourselves that if the charging time can be shortened to less than 20 minutes, users will not leave the car. If it is shortened to 10 minutes, the entire experience will be basically the same as that of a fuel vehicle.


That’s what we’re doing – fast charging. It has two cores: First, it must use a high-voltage platform to achieve such a charging speed. The high-voltage platform can also bring a second benefit. When we use silicon carbide with a high-voltage platform and better packaging technology, the battery cost can be significantly reduced . We are also now making silicon carbide modules and making three-in-one modules ourselves. Motor, this is closely related to the overall efficiency.


After completing these things, compared with today's mainstream 400 V platform, with the same size and drive mode, we can reduce the parts cost of a vehicle by 30,000 to 40,000 yuan .


We have always believed that if we want to sell electric vehicle charging piles, for us it is the product itself , not a service . If we provide 4C cars but do not have a complete 4C charging network, it is equivalent to selling a 4G mobile phone, but you still have a 2G network . So you don’t have to worry about our speed and determination in laying out charging piles, and they are not as expensive as you think.


Therefore, extended range and high-voltage fast charging are the two core routes that we will continue to pursue at the same time until 2030. Whether it is extended range or high voltage, the core purpose is to solve the charging problem and give users two different options .




It can be seen from all aspects that the 800V high-voltage system architecture is the future of new energy vehicles. The following is the sales estimate of 800V models provided by Minsheng Securities;



The following is the current 800V/100V model plans promoted by major manufacturers.




2

What is an 800V system and why 800V can reduce costs?



The name of the 800V high-voltage system comes from the electrical perspective of the vehicle. The voltage range of the current mainstream new energy vehicle high-voltage electrical system is generally 230V-450V, taking the middle value of 400V, which is generally called a 400V system; with the application of fast charging, the voltage range of the vehicle high-voltage electrical system reaches 550-930V, taking the middle value The value is 800V, which can be generally called an 800V system.


A better understanding of 800V cost reduction is that under the same power condition, the current can be reduced (P=VxI, V is doubled, the theoretical I can be half), the current is reduced, and the cost of the power distribution system and high-voltage wiring harness system can be reduced;


However, 800V is not an independent device, but it involves major three electricity, small three electricity, power distribution, thermal management, etc.


The following is the comparison and cost reduction of 800V and 400V from the system level summarized by United Automotive Electronics





3

Vehicle system architecture under 800V system


As a top Tier1, United Electronics, in the article " Driving Forces and System Architecture Analysis of 800V High Voltage Systems - What Are the Architecture Selection and Product Challenges?" 》Compares different 800V system architectures and their advantages and disadvantages


The 800V high-voltage system supported by silicon carbide technology has many advantages. Judging from the trend, the 800V high-voltage system will become the mainstream solution for high-power charging technology (>200kW) in the future.


However, the development of technology does not happen overnight. Due to the inertia of the industrial chain, supporting facilities such as 800V charging piles and 800V vehicle-mounted high-voltage components are not yet complete in the short term, which is not enough to support the rapid promotion of the ultimate 800V high-voltage system. Two points need to be considered at the moment: Compatibility 400V charging pile and 800V charging pile applications; compatible with some 400V vehicle component applications. This derives five different automotive system architecture design solutions for 800V high-voltage systems, as shown in the following table:


The first solution : all vehicle components are 800V, and the electric drive boost is compatible with the 400V DC pile solution. Its typical features are: DC fast charging, AC slow charging, electric drive, power battery, and high-voltage components are all 800V; boosted by the electric drive system, it is compatible with 400V DC charging piles.


Figure 2 The first 800V high voltage system architecture diagram


The second solution : all vehicle components are 800V, and a new DCDC compatible 400V DC pile solution is added. Its typical features are: DC fast charging, AC slow charging, electric drive, power battery, and high-voltage components are all 800V; through the addition of 400V-800V DCDC boost, it is compatible with 400V DC charging piles.


Figure 3 The second type of 800V high-voltage system architecture diagram


The third solution : all vehicle components are 800V, the power battery can flexibly output 400V and 800V, and is compatible with the 400V DC pile solution. Its typical features are: DC fast charging, AC slow charging, electric drive, power battery, and high-voltage components are all 800V; two 400V power batteries are connected in series and parallel, and can flexibly output 400V and 800V through relay switching, and are compatible with 400V DC charging piles.


Figure 4 Architecture diagram of the third 800V high-voltage system


The fourth solution : only the DC fast charging related components are 800V, the other components are maintained at 400V, and DCDC components are added for the voltage converter solution. Its typical features are: only DC fast charging and power batteries are 800V; AC slow charging, electric drive, and high-voltage components are all 400V; a new 400V-800V DCDC is added to realize voltage conversion between 400V components and 800V power batteries, and is compatible with 400V DC charging pile.


Figure 5 The fourth 800V high-voltage system architecture diagram


The fifth solution : only the DC fast charging related components are 800V, the rest of the components are maintained at 400V, and the power battery flexibly outputs 400V and 800V solutions. Its typical features are: only DC fast charging is 800V; AC slow charging, electric drive, and load are all 400V; two 400V power batteries are connected in series and parallel, and can flexibly output 400V and 800V through relay switching, and are compatible with 400V and 800V DC charging piles.


Figure 6 The fifth 800V high-voltage system architecture diagram



Figure 1 Comprehensive comparison diagram of common 800V high-voltage system architectures




4

Design Challenges of 800V System Architecture


The direct impact of upgrading the vehicle's 400V system to an 800V high-voltage system is the reliability design issues of voltage resistance and insulation caused by the increase in electrical voltage. This is a common issue for all three electrical components; potential impacts include increased charging power and driving power. The improvement and the ultimate development of silicon carbide technology have brought many challenges to the design of Sanden products:


Common voltage withstand insulation design challenges for three electrical components:

In terms of conventional design, the first is that the electrical gaps and creepage distances related to the main power circuit of electrical components need to be redesigned; the second is that the signal isolation circuits of high and low voltage components also need to be redesigned to deal with the problem of withstand voltage insulation; the third is to use higher withstand voltage of insulating materials. In terms of special design, such as motor components involving electrical, magnetic, thermal, mechanical and other factors, there may be partial discharge problems.


Battery pack technical challenges:

After the charging power is increased, the battery charging rate will be increased from 1C to >=3C. Under high charging rates, on the one hand, it will cause the loss of active materials, affecting the battery capacity and life; on the other hand, once the lithium dendrites pierce the separator, it will cause an internal short circuit in the battery, causing safety risks such as fire.


Motor technology challenges:

After the DC bus voltage increases, the insulation distance of the motor increases significantly, and additional insulation design needs to be considered. At the same time, high voltage will cause "corona" phenomenon. How to ensure full-life electrical fatigue is a dual test of cost and technology. In addition, due to the increase in voltage, the power and torque ratio of the original 400V motor has been changed, and the electromagnetic solution needs to be redesigned for 800V, which will inevitably lead to an increase in production line investment. Added to this is the challenge of increased risk of failure due to shaft currents. In summary, under the 800V architecture, how to meet customers' torque, power and efficiency requirements at a lower cost requires a certain technical threshold, which is a huge challenge.


Motor controller technical challenges:

First of all, the design of 800V motor controller must consider product reliability under high power density, high heat resistance, and high-frequency switching applications. Secondly, with the increase of 800V voltage and silicon carbide inverter frequency, the internal du/dt of the inverter has increased significantly, which brings huge challenges to the EMC design of the inverter.


Other component technical challenges:

800V OBC, 800V DCDC, 800V battery high-voltage relays/fuses/connectors, charging piles, etc. all need to be upgraded, which poses great challenges to automotive R&D designers.


5

800V challenges to BMS and AFE


BMS expert Hu Yaoshan pointed out: (For BMS recommendations, follow the public account "New Energy BMS" of the great god)

The typical number of series cells on the 400V platform is 96s, while the typical number of series cells on the 800V platform is 192s. The direct impact of this is doubling the number of AFEs and increasing costs .


More batteries bring greater data volume. In order not to increase the transmission time interval of single status information, it may be necessary to increase the daisy chain communication rate, for example, it is currently increased from 1Mbps to 2Mbps ;


Nowadays, the communication baud rate supported by AFE from mainstream manufacturers has been increased to 2Mbps.


However, the increase in communication baud rate has also brought new problems. For example, the performance of the communication network transformer needs to be re-matched and verified (such as the communication bit error rate at low temperatures), and the resistance-capacitance matching of the communication port must also be redone (such as the common mode filter capacitor), and also causes new EMC radiation exceeding the standard.





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